Dan

I was born in Baltimore, grew up in suburban Ohio, lost my virginity, went to Ohio State University for 2 years, dodged a marketing career, got rejected from their design program twice, got into CCA, went, graduated, moved to NY to work for MTV, started a company with Andre.

Andre

I grew up in communist Bulgaria where my Dad is a graphic designer. Around 6th grade me and my Mom migrated to Seattle and my parents got divorced. Went to high school in Seattle and then got in CCA where I met my counterpart. Moved to New York to work at MTV with Dan and then we started dress code.

Dan, quit lying about your virginity.

Dan

Well, there was another partner in the beginning.

Andre

“Partner”

Dan

It was him and I. Then Andre joined and things shifted.

Andre

I also had another “partner&rduo; but he didn’t leave Seattle.

Dan

I didn’t really think about it seriously till we started working together. And even more seriously till Andre came to NY after graduation.

Andre

It made sense at the time, it felt right.

Andre

I think 05-06?

Dan

Right when we moved to NY, though we had thought about it in SF. We wanted to make a mark, get some cred and help the kids.

Dan

I was really influenced in school by “tellmewhy.” It kind of changed how I looked at design and we thought maybe we could do that for students.... And once we started teaching we realized how literally we had just gone through all the stuff they were asking about, so why not write about it?

Dan

I don’t even remember anymore. Do you andre? We both have crap memories.

Andre

I take credits for all of the good ideas, so yes.

Dan

Hahaha and here I am being modest! Usually one of us comes to the table with something and we talk about it till it becomes cool. Or let it brew and come back together on it. So really nothing is just one of us or the other, we talk everything out.

Andre

I really wanted to show our really bad work from high school because at the time we both thought it was really really good but in perspective, it was hilarious. To me, it was important to see the progress because you can be terrible at something and get better with practice. I feel like it was honest in that way.

Dan

We had hired a few people to write it at first and that didn’t work out because they were too busy or it just didn’t sound like our voice, so we just kind of started without really thinking about it. We began to pass it back and forth till things coalesced.

Andre

I think a lot of designers hide their terrible work but we all do it, so might as well show it. So that made us start with high school > college > work.

Dan

We are pretty open with our failures and think they are funny. Stefan Sagmeister wrote this diary a while back and was talking about doing drugs and having sex with his girlfriend. I appreciate that level of honesty in a designer.

Andre

Oh yeah, so many of those.

Dan

We tried to start a magazine and took that whole part out because it was way too long of a story.

Andre

Yes, the story of actually pitching the book.

Andre

The big one for me was, don’t pitch until you have the entire book done because we pitched with a proposal and we got denied a few times. Once we actually finished it (although we had a publisher) there was a lot of interest.

Dan

Yeah, more than a few people were interested at that point but it was too late.

Andre

Also, a smaller publisher will give you a bigger cut and more freedom, but might take 2 years to print ;)

Dan

We never would have gotten away with the cover we have if we went with someone else.

Andre

That being said, I’m personally happy we did what we did and we went with our current publisher.

Andre

For sure. One of them wanted us to take out like 60 pages and re-size the entire book??? Resize a book? That’s ridiculous given that we were done with it.

Dan

Well the cover for sure. We were going to publish with someone else for a bit and they wanted us to change the cover, take mad pages out and give us way less money.

Dan

Oh yeah. Its all about money.

Andre

Dan

Not for us, but the publishers. They usually take a crazy cut. Especially if you are nobodies like us.

Andre

Also, they have to push other books before yours. Tons of politics.

Dan

I’m sure David Carson gets his $ on.

Andre

We definitely take risks.

Dan

That and working harder than anyone else and having each other as backup.

Andre

Some fail, some succeed.

Dan

It’s more fun that way. But we never bank on anything being a hit till it is or isn’t.

Dan

We are just getting started I think. I still feel like most of the work in the book is pretty bad. We also want to get more into producing content of our own. That's what I am most into.

Dan

I think most designers would love to do this, but it will be interesting to see how many can.

Andre

See, a lot of designers produce things aimed at OTHER designers. I think thats the problem.

Dan

There was a really great article I read about this on Design Observer. It talked about how most designers should just stick to designing and give up no the pipe dream.

Andre

It’s too circular. Although you can totally say that bout our book. Fuck.

Dan

I can only think of a few who have pulled it off and I am sure they do shit they don’t show anyone to get by.

Dan

The last really good book I read was “Born Standing Up” or “The Watchmen”.

Andre

I don’t know if its my favorite but I liked Richard Price’s “Lush Life”. I like his style.

Andre

Frank DeRose of Zut Alors Inc! He wrote a few essays for our book. His office is on top of Karlssonwilker and Paul Sahre. Very funny guy.

Dan

I think most of the people who I would want to already have. Maybe the talented and lovely Melissa Scott who helped us design and produce our book.

Andre

I just don’t need another monograph. As long as its funny and clever. I’m sick of picture books.

Dan

Yeah people take themselves way to seriously. Honesty and transparency are important. Showing behind the curtain—what actually goes into this stuff to survive. It's easy to make a pretty picture book with no back story or flaws.

Andre

Plus, lets be honest — is design really that cool?

Andre

She can see through it. It all comes down to honesty. I think a lot of people try to make it more than what it is.

Dan

There are a lot of design books because designers can just make books in indesign and sell them to a publisher or publish them themselves—its way too easy.

Andre

We are all nerds but we are nerds that do what they want to and have a good time at it.

Dan

Don’t take a crap job, or if you do, try to do fun work on the side or you will give this shit up in 1 year tops and become a marketing exec at Safeway.